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Namaste/Theories
DHARMA Stations *The DHARMA initiative builds their structures with either respect for or in secret from the "Hostiles"/"Others." This is why Radzinsky was so concerned with Sayid seeing his plans. The Swan was meant to be build in complete secret from the others (explaining why its two entrances are so well hidden). The Orchid Station, too, is a secret station, but to be built an agreement must have been made with the hostiles to allow DHARMA to build a "green house" on top of the area, otherwise DHARMA folk would be betraying the truce by building anything outside of their fenced in area. :* Many (if not all) of the DHARMA stations are outside of the fenced-in area; none of the survivors of 815 had to cross the fence to get to the Swan, Pearl, Arrow, Staff, Flame, Tempest, or Hydra. Only the Barracks are contained within the fence. :*It always seemed to me like the Swan was successfully hidden from the Others. I see no other reason why they would have left its inhabitants alone after the purge. :*When Jin and Radzinsky run out of the Flame and confronts Sayid for being in DHARMA territory, they are clearly not inside the sonic fence. So evidently the territorial lines are outside the sonic fence. :**Some parts of the territorial lines are near the fence, while others, as this clearly shows, are not near the sonic fence. (Sayid CLEARLY was not hopping sonic fences while hand-cuffed like he was.) :*Part of the agreement between DHARMA and the Hostiles is that DHARMA cannot drill more than 10m into the ground on the island. The Swan and the Orchid are hidden so well because both stations drilled deep into the Island. Why Ben, Sun, Locke, and Frank didn't time travel to 1977 * Sun didn't jump because she the one member of the O6 on the flight who was not visited by Locke. ** Sun didn't jump because she was not a candidate. Jin was. Only the candidates jumped. That was the writers way of telling us which of them was the actual candidate. Also, it was widely believed that Kate was not a candidate because her name was crossed off in chalk in the cave. But we later discovered that there was a second location that housed the candidate names, namely The Lighthouse which Jacob used as a decoy to trick his brother as the Lighthouse could not be found. When Ajira Airways Flight 316, some of the Oceanic 6 were sent back in time to 1977, except for Ben and Sun. Additionally, the planes pilot, Frank, and Ben, along with other passengers, didn't time travel. *Because they've all met Widmore in the "present day." None of the other characters who had previously been on the Island had ever encountered Widmore face to face before. We've seen Ben, Locke and Sun in close quarters with Widmore, while Frank has referred to Widmore as his boss when hired as a chopper pilot, we can presume he had met Widmore before. **It is very unlikely that Faraday had not met Widmore. Widmore funded his research and committed to taking care of Theresa Spencer afterward. It is almost certain that Dan had not only met Widmore but that he had a working relationship with him over the research he was doing. ***Um, Faraday wasn't on the Flight 316. We're discussing the reason why certain people on the plane stayed in the present timeline while others were transported to 1977. Daniel was (presumably) already there. *Well Eloise Hawking did say that if they didn’t simulate the exact events then the transition of returning to the Island will be unpredictable, it could just be that those four were unlucky enough be left in the future. *There is a rule. There can't be two instances of the same person at the same time on the island. There can't be two Charlotte's in 1974 and as they were about to get there, she bleed and died. There were moments with two of them at the same time during the time-jumps, Locke notices his other self is near in one of those flashes, right when he finds the hatch in 2004 the day Boone died and Desmond turns on the light from the inside, also Sawyer peeks while Claire gives birth helped by Kate in 2004, so his other-self must be near and definitely on the Island, this is why some of them start bleeding too. So they keep jumping in time without control until they settle in 1974 and then the rule of no repeated people stays. There can't be two Suns on the island in 1977 and that's the reason why she didn't go back in time. Baby Sun was on the island in 1977, I guess she's probably Dr. Pierre Chang's daughter. **Pierre Chang is Chinese. Sun is Korean. There's kind of a difference ... and she wasn't born on the Island either. **She is not Chang's offspring. Sun was born in 1980. Also, what evidence is there of the rule of "no repeated people"? Faraday made it evident that the nosebleeds definitely had something to do with how long a person has been exposed to the Island (which was confirmed when Charlotte revealed she used to live on the Island). Also, it created a UQ about Miles' previous life on the Island, which would hint at the possibility of him being the son of Pierre Chang. Never was there anything said about a rule for multiple instances of a person not being allowed on the Island. Even if this were true, why would this be a selective rule/law? Simply because they were traveling through time erratically? If that's the case, then why not say the rule of gravity stops working when erratic time travel occurs on the Island? The rule of "no repeated people" is pure speculation to help support a purely speculative theory. **There is no rule that says that their can't be two instances of the same person at the same time. In the flash where Sawyer witnessed Kate delivering Aaron, there were two Sawyers in that timeline. There were also two Juliet's, and two Hurley's on the Island at that time as well. ***In Some Like It Hoth, Miles looks in on his father, Pierre Chang, reading to the earlier version of himself. *Assume for a second the O6 never left the Island, like various people have said, they where never supposed to leave, so assuming they never left, think about where everyone would be if they never left the Island. Ben will have pushed the wheel causing the time jumps, Locke will have pushed the wheel to stop the time jumps, so Ben and Locke would have left the Island. Frank may have never gone to the Island in the first place. Sun however would be time traveling with the rest of the Losties, but because she was pregnant she would have died. So now fit that in with what actually happened. When they came back to the Island course correction stepped in and put everyone where they needed to be, Jack Kate and Hurley would be in the past, the rest would just crash as normal. *The latest recap explained that the passengers ending up in different times was a result of not perfectly recreating Flight 815. It was a random outcome and had nothing to do with the specific people involved. **That has some merit to it actually. Jack had Locke's body just like he had Christian's, Hurley had a guitar case just like Charlie, Sayid had someone escorting him to L.A. just like Kate and Marshal Mars, but Sun didn't have anything/anyone, and Ben and Frank weren't on Oceanic 815. However, it doesn't explain why Kate was transported with the others, as she didn't appear to have any kind of proxy. ***There is a popular belief that Kate was pregnant, taking Claire's spot on the plane. She slept with Jack the night before the flight. This is also what brought on David in the Flash-sideways universe who was the 'son' of Jack and Juliet in that universe. However he had dark hair and freckles. This was a gift from the island to Jack so that he would be able to meet his son after sacrificing himself for the island to get everyone off of it. David was actually Jack and Kate's son who she carried to term after leaving the island. *** Sun had her husband's wedding ring, similar to Rose having Bernard's ring. *When Michael came back to the beach, he had a list of five specific people he had to bring back with him in order to get Walt back: Sawyer, Sayid, Hurley, Kate, and Jack. Four of these five jumped back to 1977, and the other one (Sawyer) was already there. :* Actually, Sayid wasn't on Michael's list. He wanted to come, but Michael wouldn't let him. *If we assume that Jin was the candidate and not Sun, then only candidates traveled to 1977. Everyone else (Frank, Ben, Sun, and other passengers) were not a candidate and so they did not travel. * They all DID jump to 1977 (as indicated by the numbers heard in the cockpit), but only the remaining candidates on board stayed in 1977 and were teleported ("exited") down to the Island, while the rest of the people on the plane moved on to 2007. Please also note the night/day time difference in 2007 while they were approaching the Island. :*This is incorrect. The reason the voice was reciting the numbers in the cockpit was because Rousseau turned off her transmission so Jack could contact the freighter long before they came back to the island. Also, When Sun was trying to find Jin, Christian showed Sun the photo of the Dharma initiative with Kate, Jack and Hurley in it in 1977. The Barracks - Season 5 and before season 5 This discussion is not about the 2007/2008 question; that one needs to occur elsewhere. Sun, Ben, Frank and John are in 2007/2008. "On-Island" facilities appear to be different. In Ben arrives on the Island with his father. They debark from a submarine, possibly the Galaga onto a pier that features light poles to facilitate movement in darkness. A small, gray structure reminiscent of outdoor toilet facilities is at the land end of the pier, as are at least three DHARMA vans and supplies being loaded into vehicles, including a small boat that has been pulled up onto the land. In 1977 in Jack, Hugo and Kate are driven to the processing center, which is a brightly painted building located among other brightly painted buildings. In 2007/2008, in Sun and Frank cross to the Island and land at the pier equipped with the lighting featured in At least one of the light poles has collapsed; they are not depicted passing by the gray building. They walk to an area with brightly painted buildings. One features the "PROCESSING CENTER" sign. Another has at least one boarded-up window and a door with a DHARMA logo. The Pala Ferry pier, with an open-sided structure at the seaward end and no illumination, does not appear in The Barracks is another group of buildings which is mostly residential in nature. Ben tells Sun that there is a dock one-half mile south. He does not say that the town he used to live in is the town he was living in on the the day Flight 815 crashed. He does not say how far it is. We have been drawn into believing that the Barracks was the living space of the DHARMA Initiative. This is not possible. There are too many people in the Initiative to live in the structures depicted in episodes to date. To accommodate all of its members, the DHARMA Initiative had more than one village. The group of buildings we saw in and in all the segments of is an administrative area for new arrivals. It is also home for certain members of the Initiative; Sawyer and Juliet are examples. Horace and Amy may live in that area, but that is not certain. The Changs' residence is even less certain. Pierre Chang appears in to be walking to work, but he could just as easily have been dropped off at a shuttle stop by a driver. ** Sawyer calls for backup on the walkie talkie when the flaming van goes into the building in "He's our you". He says there "is a fire in village 15". This could point out that there are multiple villages... and the one we see in 2007/8 with Sun, Lapidus and Christian is just one that was not used by the future others.. and not part of new otherton. ***This is incorrect - Sawyer says there "is a fire in building 15". There is only one village. ***In A tale of two cities ep1 s3 as the camera pulls away, you can see the area the others live in as clear and surrounded by houses, but, if you look carefully you can see that there are many other homes as well that appear to be in a more overgrown area. I think there is only 1 set of Barracks but the others only occupy a small section. * We see the Barracks in Namaste in two different time periods - 1977 and 2007-ish. We previously saw the Barracks throughout the rest of the series in the 2004 time period. But the 2007 Barracks look much different than the 2004 Barracks, and much different than can be explained by just a three-year gap. Did we ever see the "Processing Center" sign swinging in the breeze (or even still attached), or boarded up windows, DHARMA Recruiting class photos or any sign that the whole place had been abandoned for thirty years at any time the Others were living there? The first glimpse of the Barracks was in the Season 3 premiere, when Juliet, Ben, Ethan, Goodwin, et al witnessed the plane breaking up. Through the time Jack was staying there up tossing the football with Mr. Friendly to when Locke's group made camp, played Risk and had a shootout with Keamy's mercenaries, the whole Barracks appeared clean and basically neat. The 2007-era Barracks looks as if it's been deserted for thirty years. I believe this is a clear indication that the 1977-era Losties have indeed changed history. :* This is a clear indication that the buildings seen in "Namaste" are not the Barracks we've seen before. The Barracks are further inland and have been kept in better repair. :**It would appear that they are different sets of buildings, because there seemed to be trees in around the building seen by Frank and Sun, while the Barracks was quite an open area. Also, they didn't seem to be travelling for very long and they did not travel through the fence, which surrounds the Barracks, as we have been told many times. It seems unlikely that this was removed in the last three years when the Others have not removed it in the time that they have previously controlled the Island. :* This area may never have been occupied by the others, hence the DHARMA photos. It is unlikely that Sun and Frank just arrived at the barracks due to the fact that no water surrounds them. :* I'm so glad this picture is here, if you look at the first frame you can see many homes completely overgrown just off the main clearing. The only reason we didn't see the processing center before now is it was in this area, close to where the rest of the homes are, but unused as there is nothing there the Others needed. The reason Juliet never saw the 1977 pictures is she didn't ever see a reason to go into the abandoned area (or maybe she has seen them and knows more than she is letting on). The Reason we didn't see Sun and Frank walk from the docks all the way to the barracks is...nothing happened, there was no reason in the story to show two people walking on an overgrown trail past the sonic fence...which was deactivated by Keamy , and most likely never turned back on. As far a people saying that it's too far overgrown for only three years of abandonment, come on, it's a tropical environment where no-one was making any effort to clear it away, if anything they should be more decrepit and overgrown. There is constant rainfall, and tropical areas grow very quickly.Blackrock 108 17:10, 17 April 2009 (UTC) *It could be that the plane didn't land in the present but at a future time. Either that or the mainland is in a different time. The barracks they come into is cold, uninhabited, overgrown and in shambles. The barracks as we knew it before the time skips was not that shabby or run down. There were no hanging initiation signs just floating in the wind or dust over everything. These barracks have been deserted a very long time. **It is the "present", 2007/8, because it clearly said it was 30 years later than 1977. **The Barracks are in disarray because of the 3 years they were abandoned. When structures are not used for an extended period of time they deteriorate very quickly without human intervention. *The Barracks we see in this episode aren't isn't real, its merely a hallucination/projection of the cabin. **Evidence? Ethan as the baby Island birth gave Ethan superpowers The baby is Ethan, who would then have to be age 27 at the time of the crash of Flight 815. Being born on the Island gave him the near-superhuman strength and resilience he displayed in season one (lifted Charlie off the ground by the throat with one hand, beat the tar out of Jack, rose up while Jack had him pinned to the ground by the throat, took a dozen or so punches to the face from Jack and then stood back up). The origin of the English name Ethan in the Hebrew Name and adjective EYTAN . It means (both modern and Biblical Hebrew) “strong man”. Sawyer says something along the lines of "whoever or whatever you are" when the Survivors capture him, before Charlie kills him. As far as the purge, it has been hinted that Ben was not the only DI member to join the hostiles. If Ethan truly is this special, Ben would certainly want him on his side rather than dead. Ethan became a doctor because he was confused and fascinated by his own unique physiology, and wanted Claire and Aaron so badly because he thought, if Aaron could be born on the Island, there would be someone else like him. Ethan took his name from Amy Rom may be Amy's maiden name and he took her name after a divorce. Amy was also married to Paul. Maybe his name was Rom. Ethan later sought our Juliet Ethan later learns who Juliet is and that she delivered him on the island. This is why he went to recruit her in "Not in Portland" and said "It's an honor to meet you.". Amy is Amelia Ethan's mother Amy is also Amelia, the older woman from the Season 3 premier. In that episode Amelia shows up early to Juliet's book club. The two walk out onto the porch and we see legs sticking out from under Juliet's house. The legs belong to Ethan, and Amelia says something to the effect of "Is he still working on this?!" with emphasis on the still. The way she said it is reminiscent of a mother talking about her child. Not necessarily sure of the importance of this other than it means that Ethan and his mother both survived the purge. Radzinsky * Radzinsky and Kelvin had many conversations about their common acquaintance - Sayid *The Hostiles/Others recruit Kelvin Inman to help Radzinsky and stage it to look like the DHARMA is initiating Kelvin. * Eventually, Radzinsky ends up working with Kelvin Inman. When the Purge occurs, the two of them stay inside the Hatch and survive the attack, staying alive for years. Aware of the gas attack that poisoned the island, they write "quarantined" on the inside door of the Hatch. * As much as the Others dislike having a station occupied by non-Others, they recognize how useful it is to have first Radzinsky, then Inman and finally Desmond pushing the button for them. * The quarantine, if there ever was any point to it, became valueless over time. Inman knew it no longer applied because he found Desmond on the Island and Desmond lived. Others The Others haven't taken anyone from Team 316 as they're in a kind of holding pattern. Jacob decides who gets taken from the Survivors and without Ben or Locke to interpret his orders (or pretend to interpret them) they don't know who to take. Miscellaneous * The Island has begun to forgive Ben; when walking through the jungle of Hydra Island with Sun, Ben removes his arm sling and checks his arm, which seems to be healed or healing. ** Possible, but it's also been at least 24 hours since his injuries were inflicted. If it were just a sprained wrist (most likely, as a broken bone would have a splint if not a cast), it would be feeling much better now already. Processing Center is different The processing center that Sun and Frank find appears to be a totally different building than the one that Jack, Kate, and Hurley were inducted at. Go to the main article on the Processing Center and compare the screen shots. Not only is the shape of the building different, but the 2008 building looks like it's smaller than the old building. Either the DHARMA Initiative moved the Processing Center to another building later, or else Sun and Frank found a manifestation of Jacob's Cabin. Orientation and Sub recruits list Kate was not on the list because there were only two recruits that dropped out. According to Amy & Juliet's conversation, the sub was full except for the 2 spots from the dropouts (they didn't want to take the sedative for the sub journey). So Juliet couldn't have simply added all three Losties to the list without suspicion. So she waits till most of the recruits are processed, and replaces an already processed name with Kate's name. it:Namaste/Theories ru:Namaste/Theories